Episode #16 - Louise Ogilvy joins us to talk about getting hired in some exciting emerging tech industries and improving your CV

Louise works in emerging tech industires and shares her advice on writing winning CV's to land your dream role

In this Episode

On this episode, Louise Ogilvy joins us to talk about getting hired in some exciting emerging tech industries such as agritech. We talk about how to write a winning CV and work with recruiters to land your dream role.

Louise is a founder of recruitment agency Propeller Tech, which was launched to provide recruitment solutions to the startup and early stage growth community.

Listen now

Sponsors

Want to sponsor the show? Head on over to the sponsorship page to take advantage of early sponsorship!

Resources

We mention a few different resources in the show and you can find them here:

• Find Louise on Twitter.
• Connect with Louise on LinkedIn.
• Visit the Propeller-Tech website.

You can find out more about me, Rob Kendal, on my personal website, or follow me on Twitter.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Rob Kendal: [00:00:00] joining us for episode six of the podcast in season two, Is that Louise Ogilvy. She ‘s a recruiter and founder of propeller tech. Now propeller tech was launched to provide recruitment solutions to the startup and early stage growth community at Louise works with a range of people on both sides of the coin.

[00:00:15] startups, looking for talented developers. And the very same tech talent looking for a role in, in new and emerging tech startups, Louise is going to share her wealth of knowledge and experience in the job market to help you listeners improve your CVs and chances of landing, that dream development role, especially in that kind of startup, emerging market technology groups.

[00:00:34] So Louise, hello. Thank you for coming on the show. How’s it going?

[00:00:37] Louise Ogilvy: [00:00:37] Hello. Thank you very much, indeed, for having me today. yeah, I’m good. Thank you. It’s been a busy couple of months actually, which has been fantastic to hear and experience given everything we’ve been through. but definitely lots of new tech hiring coming through, which is, welcomed, I think too, to us all after the last six months.

[00:00:59] Rob Kendal: [00:00:59] Yeah, it’s been a, it’s been a funny old one in terms of, you know , I spoke to a few recruiters and the job market seems to have gone a bit nuts. in terms of, you know, obviously there’s a lot more candidates coming into the market with unfortunate layoffs and things like that, but there’s also seems to be a lot of companies that are really thriving. Like the one I, where I work

[00:01:15] Louise Ogilvy: [00:01:15] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I think that’s been really interesting to see as those pockets of an industry where people have thrived and have continued to grow. and there are lots of those. And, that’s the beauty of what I do is I get involved in lots of different startups. So I get to work across the whole plethora of different industry sectors.

[00:01:34] Rob Kendal: [00:01:34] you’ve been in the recruitment scene for quite a while. It looks like 20 plus years. Is that right?

[00:01:39] Louise Ogilvy: [00:01:39] That’s right. Yes. So, yeah, so my background is, actually before I went into recruitment, I was actually a trainer. So I had a training background and I was actually training recruitment consultants. And at the age of 24, I decided to set up my first recruitment agency and I spent a big part of my career running a recruitment agency that actually supplies recruitment consultants. So a bit of a bizarre sector. it’s called recruitment for recruitment. Yeah, I found over the last probably four or five years of running that business is that I really gravitated towards startups. So helping lots of recruitment consultants who wanted to branch out and set up their own business. So I worked a lot with founders of recruitment agencies, helping them to hire, grow from two founders to team of 10.

[00:02:35] So, yeah. So 20 years in recruitment overall now, and the last couple of years I’ve moved more into the tech sector, but again, working with founders and startups.

[00:02:46] Rob Kendal: [00:02:46] that’s amazing. It’s great to meet people who’ve got such like a wealth of experience in, in that kind of, you know, in one area. Cause it, it gives you that such a depth of, of, knowledge to draw on what was it that drew you into the recruitment industry in the first place?

[00:03:00] Louise Ogilvy: [00:03:00] I was training recruitment consultants and, I just, it fascinates me because it’s a sales job, but literally no two days are ever the same. So this morning, for example, I’ve been interviewing a Python developer, and this afternoon, a little bit later on, I’ve got a, interview with a junior developer.

[00:03:21] So. Your days are never the same and it introduces you to so many different people and characters, and I know recruiters get a bit of a bad press. I totally understand that. But for me, the reason why I do what I do is because I actually have a real, genuine passion for helping people to progress their careers.

[00:03:42] And yes, ultimately, you know, it’s a business and it’s a profit making business, but. The passion I have is actually for seeing people grow and develop. And the reason why I called the new business propeller tech is because I see myself as that propeller to help people get off the ground. and if I can, if I can look back in two or three years and say, wow, I worked for the founder of that company and they started with nothing and now there’s a team of 10 or 20. That’s job satisfaction for me. And I don’t think there are many sales jobs where you can get that same feeling.

[00:04:22] Rob Kendal: [00:04:22] It is you’re right. It’s such a weird place. Like recruitment. I’ve spoke to my fair share and I know some good ones. I know some terrible ones, but you’re in this, you’re in this weird sales job where normally it’s very one way, you know, you work for company, A selling product ABC, and you’ve got the customers say here’s product ABC, you know, off you go. With recruitment you’re like, you’re selling your client, the company to the, to your other client, the, the, the candidate, and then like vice versa. And it’s like two-way sales mediator type, it’s such a weird, weird

[00:04:50] sort of area,

[00:04:50] Louise Ogilvy: [00:04:50] you’ve got two customers because you’re, you know, your two customers are you’re hiring you’re hiring company and your candidates, and you’ve got to give them both an exemplary service. You know, you can’t have one doesn’t exist without the other. so you’ve got to look after two different demanding, customers in a way, but I think that’s what makes it more interesting.

[00:05:13] Rob Kendal: [00:05:13] Absolutely it does. now you must have seen the tech landscape change quite a bit over those 20 years. and especially nowadays like this, there’s such a lot of disruption in older, Older industries like banking, you know, Starling and Monzo and tide and Coconut and all these other crazy banks that are popping up and just really killing the old sort of, you know, the old style banks where they’re really kind of old traditional wares that are very slow and things.

[00:05:36] So what, what sort of up and coming industry sectors have you seen at the moment? So if people were looking to explore dev careers in industries they wouldn’t have thought of before, what kind of things have you seen coming up?

[00:05:46] Louise Ogilvy: [00:05:46] So, I’d really like to talk about agricultural tech actually. because I was introduced to it a couple of years ago now and in truth, my opinion of agricultural the industry was probably very old fashioned. But what has fascinated me more than anything is the extent to which tech is now being used within the agricultural sector.

[00:06:11] I mean, it’s amazing. So, I’ve just completed a big project, which I’m still on, which is still ongoing with, And agricultural tech company called Breeder and they have created a platform for farmers. It’s very mobile app heavy as you can imagine because farmers wander around, outside.

[00:06:31] and want to record real live data on their mobiles. So. I’ve just completed a project for them. I’m hiring a whole dev team down in Bristol and that’s been frontend, backend, business analyst, data analyst. And what, what, what really fascinated me is when I talked to those developers that I was head hunting it wasn’t a sector that they’d naturally considered because I think it comes down to, education. And I think there’s going to be a lot of investment over the next couple of years within the arg-tech industry sector, because we need to, you know, by 2050, you know, we’ve got to look at being able to feed a huge number of mouths.

[00:07:14] And so the government’s putting a lot of money into the agricultural sector. and then fascinating things like vertical farming, which uses a huge amount of tech robotics. So, looking at, using robotics out in the field. So there’s another wonderful company called the small robot company and they have created some outstanding robots that will be able to go out into the field and monitor the soil and be able to weed without the use of pesticides and chemicals.

[00:07:46] And, and that as an industry for me has probably been where I’ve had, my, the biggest interest, because I just don’t think that people are aware the, all the different tech jobs that you can find within that sector and it’s such an important sector. so, so that’s been very, very interesting.

[00:08:08] but what I’m saying to developers now is look, there is, there is such a wide choice out there of opportunities. It’s okay to go after something that you’ve actually got an interest in, rather than just seeing as your next job.

[00:08:24] Rob Kendal: [00:08:24] that’s, that’s great advice. I know a lot of people, you know, they wont, and people listening to this, they won’t have that luxury of kind of being able to pick and choose as much. But I think if you can take your time or you’re in that position where you find where you are, but you’re looking at moving.

[00:08:37] Yeah. maybe this is time to think about different sectors that you might not have thought about it. Cause who would have thought of like agricultural stuff. Cause you don’t, you don’t see it, you see the product and your plate it and you see, you know, tractors in a field, but it’s always been tractors in a field, you don’t think of all the behind the scenes stuff.

[00:08:52] Louise Ogilvy: [00:08:52] the work that’s going on at the moment in the agricultural tech sector is absolutely fascinating. And anybody that hasn’t looked at it, I would say, just go and do a bit of research because, it’s a really up and coming changing industry sector that needs lots of individuals to move into that industry from other sectors.

[00:09:16] So you can bring that technology with you.

[00:09:19] Rob Kendal: [00:09:19] And this is where talking to a good recruiter like yourself is, is quite handy. Cause people, I think they view recruiters cause they come across a lot of bad ones. They view them as like a barrier to entry. What actually a lot of the good recruiters are the ones who worked in down with the clients. So not only can they get your foot in the door in places where you maybe wouldn’t before they have access to kind of emerging sort of startups and emerging jobs and different things that you might not have thought of. So you can have it, have a chat to them, even if you’re not looking to just go to one and say, look, these are my skills that, where will I be a good fit? What things have you got coming up? And keep me in mind. And they will. Yeah. You know,

[00:09:52] The real meat and potatoes we’re going to get to is a CVs. Everyone has got some experience. If they’ve got a job of having to create a CV and then the panic of do I have to do a different one for every job and what should I put on there? And do I put my favorite joke and whether I play a rock guitar, and so, you know, and then have themselves and their career, mercilessly judged by a couple of bits of paper.

[00:10:12] So what advice do you have for people when it comes to CVs?

[00:10:15] Louise Ogilvy: [00:10:15] So there are certain, there are certain things that every CV should have. There are some things that personally I think should be on a CV. So the first thing that I think people miss out, but it’s really important is your personal statement. don’t skip that part because. I know it’s hard for us to sell ourselves because we’re human and nobody likes to feel like they’re bragging, of course, but ultimately that that’s the first part of a CV that somebody will read.

[00:10:46] And it, it’s a nice way to get your personality across, just by the words that you use and how you might describe what you feel to be your main attributes. So I would absolutely ask people to put a personal summary on the top of any CV, a personal statement, and view that as giving the reader a first, slice of information about you.

[00:11:12] then, cause we’re talking about software developers, tech skills. Now I know there are lots of different opinions on there, so I, I. These, these are my views and, and, you know, not everybody will share those, but I see on a lot of CVS, a whole just chunk or paragraph of tech skills, where it literally will say JavaScript, Node, and it, and it’s just words.

[00:11:36] What I think is a better way of demonstrating your tech skills is. To use some kind of a rating system. And I’ve seen this on lots of CVs. I think it’s fantastic. Whether it’s a star rating or you’ve got a bar against each one, but it enables the reader to very quickly look at a CV and go, okay, so they’ve listed out 20 programming languages or whatever, but actually I can see that they’re predominantly a JavaScript developer because that’s at the top and it’s got five stars or it’s got a bar that’s completely coloured in right down to the skills that you use, the least, because if you’re applying for a role and you’re going to be competing against 50 other candidates, you want to stand out and I’ve been saying to developers that I’m talking to at the moment when I get their CV, just go away and do that for me and make sure that it’s clear on there where your strengths lie.

[00:12:37] So keep that as a working document that you revisit to make sure that you’re keeping it up to date and you ‘re changing it.

[00:12:44] Rob Kendal: [00:12:44] See, I like, I like those, you used them in the past and they are such a polarizing topic because some people are like, Oh, do you really want it? Watch someone actually comment on mine. Oh, do you really want to say that? You’re only like, huh. Half as good at like management? You know, I don’t look at it that way.

[00:12:58] I look at it and look, I’ve got no, no experience and lots and lots of experience. I’m an expert. And I would say like a bar half full is someone who has a generous amount of experience, but a lot to learn. And it kind of shows off where your strengths are. So I think there’s, it depends who you get in front of and that is ultimately what you’re doing with the CV.

[00:13:16] You’re rolling the dice. You might get in front of someone who goes, I hate these bars and puts you in the bin, but then a good recruiter should be able to massage you into them anyway and get you or get you an interview, you know?

[00:13:27] Louise Ogilvy: [00:13:27] Absolutely. But yeah, I, you know, it’s, as I said, it’s, there’s differing opinions, but I know if I’ve got 40 CVs, I need to look through, I quite like a, a very quick visual to go. Oh yeah. So this person’s definitely a JavaScript developer. This person’s definitely a backend Python developer. That’s not to say that I would discount people.

[00:13:48] Of course I wouldn’t, because you’d still pick up the phone and have a conversation with them.

[00:13:52] Now, again, for years and years, people have said a CV should be no more than two pages and only put down in the last 10 years. And. Yes. You know, I agree. Nobody wants to read it a six page CV. They don’t because nobody has the time to do that. so what I always suggest to people is in your last two or three roles, maybe that covers, you know, five or six years, if you’re a bit more experienced, I would make your last few roles, quite detailed, because they are the most relevant.

[00:14:26] Because they are the most recent. and instead of just putting your job title actually include, as part of that summary, what your achievements were.

[00:14:38] So you need to make it the best so that you’re portraying yourself in the best light. So. I would always include your, the projects you’ve worked on, the part you’ve played in them. So be able to break down the impact that you’ve had on a particular project, rather than saying we did this, to be able to demonstrate, what you’ve been doing and your achievements.

[00:15:03] Rob Kendal: [00:15:03] Yes. That’s I know to pick up on a thing you said about achievements as well. I, I come through a lot of kind of coding students and mentors, and I try to try to, and I’ve had a lot of experience with recruiters, and I try to kind of leach a bit of info and give it, give it to them. And the how you phrase stuff, when you think about selling as well, like you said, if you go down the achievement’s route, so if you put a wall of kind of here’s a bunch of technologies that I used in this last job. Every other developer is going to do that. But what did you do with them? So I have like a key achievements right after my personal statement. It’s like I built a marketing website with react to increased conversions by 600%, you know, and did this other thing.

[00:15:41] And that, that kind of sells it more beyond the kind of black and white of, I use react to build a website

[00:15:46] Louise Ogilvy: [00:15:46] Oh, it does. And, and if you can put any facts, figures, saving, you know, any, any numerical or factual information that you can put, because if you, you know, if, as you’ve just given me the example there, if you built a marketing website and it increased, you know, traffic to the company and ultimately sales by 600%, for example, if somebody is a potential hirer and they look at that, they’re going to think, wow, I hope they can come and do that for me.

[00:16:14] And that. Means so much more than just I built a marketing website. So yeah, I totally agree. And that, that goes for any, you know, any job in any sector. I think the more you can demonstrate the, the word is impact, what impact have you made in that job? And it might be you’ve saved time or you’ve saved money or you’ve increased money, whatever it is.

[00:16:39] If you can make it more factual, they are the things that will definitely stand out.

[00:16:44] Rob Kendal: [00:16:44] that that’s a great wadge of, of CV advice for people. I think that covers a lot of the other questions I had around CVs. That’s awesome. I mean, you, you touched on it a little bit as well when we talked about support in factors like, you know, personal websites and kind of portfolios and social media and things like that.

[00:17:00] how important do you feel that it is to have some of those supporting elements and things like creating , you know, like a personal brand? Is that a good way for candidates to differentiate themselves as well as a good CV?

[00:17:10] Louise Ogilvy: [00:17:10] Yeah, I really do. I mean, LinkedIn is such a vital tool to anybody that’s looking for a role. So I know that not all software developers have a LinkedIn profile, but, that is also a direct route to hiring managers and recruiters.

[00:17:30] So, as recruiters, we spend all day on LinkedIn looking for candidates with specific skill sets. So, and a lot of it comes down to keywords. If you want to be found, you know, if you’re looking for job and you want to be found by a hiring manager or a recruiter, think about key words that people will look for, because then you will come up on a CV search databases online.

[00:17:53] And also on LinkedIn. So having a really good LinkedIn profile. Yeah. So that kind of mirrors your CV, but not quite as detailed, means that you will quite often get approached by recruiters or direct in house recruiters about roles that suit your skill set. So that’s a really vital tool, I think, alongside a CV.

[00:18:16] yes, I think personal branding in the form of a personal website. Definitely a portfolio of your work. I know you can’t always share information about every project you’ve worked on, but you know, those that you can, it’s great to have those in a central point. People are always going to look at, GitHub to see how active you are on there.

[00:18:35] So, you know, if you can keep that updated, it’s another good tool for people to see how proactive you are. but yes, I think personal branding is what allows people to stand out. And it does come back to the point I make, which is we’re not very good at selling ourselves as humans. and we’re not because, you know, nobody wants to come across as arrogant, but actually you’re not.

[00:19:02] And nobody will ever think that it’s just a way to demonstrate to people who you are, what you’re about, what you’ve done and what you can take to your next employer. And if you can have that mindset, you will stand out against the competition.

[00:19:18] Rob Kendal: [00:19:18] and when we talk about the, the job search itself and things, I always recommend attacking it. Like probably this is why I do cause it’s the way, the way I’m wired, but I get like a process using something like Trello. So I have like job applications, call backs interviews, and like stages that I go through and it helps to make it a bit. depersonalized for me. Cause I think people, you know, if you apply for 10 jobs and get rejected, it’s all kind of just chips away at your self esteem a bit. Well, I think if you treat it a bit more like a, I dunno like a, a very mechanical process that you can kind of be a bit more unemotional about that ,that’s quite good.

[00:19:52] Do you have any, any kind of tips for helping with the job search process? Any red flags to look out for for people

[00:19:58] Louise Ogilvy: [00:19:58] Yeah, I think definitely keeping a track of where you’ve applied and to. Is really important because as a recruiter, there’s, there’s nothing worse then, you know, getting, an applications room thinking great, going to call them candidate. And they don’t no, well, they kind of forget who they’ve applied to and then you get the impression that it’s been more of a scattergun approach rather than a specific application, because there’s an interest in that role.

[00:20:26] as a recruiter, I actually quite like it when people follow up and say, how’s my application going, because it shows an interest.

[00:20:34] So, you know, there’s, there’s no problem with keeping a track of what you’re doing and actually making that follow up call,

[00:20:41] Rob Kendal: [00:20:41] I think some people I know I do, they worry about whether they’re too eager or like when they should call back. Cause personally, I think, especially if you’ve gone for an interview, you should have really a relatively quick turnaround or they should give you some expectation where we’ll get back to you in a week because we’ve got more candidates or something.

[00:20:57] So what, what is a good kind of gauge of when to follow up with even even initial CVs and things like that?

[00:21:03] Louise Ogilvy: [00:21:03] Yeah, of course. So, if we talk about CVS, I think probably given the competitive nature that we are now in with software development, you would like to think that people would turn a CV around within 48 hours. if you’re applying to company direct and there’s a point of contact because quite often you might go through an online system.

[00:21:24] And with that, it’s very difficult to know who to contact. So that’s harder to track, but certainly if you sent your CV to a recruiter, I would say within 48 hours, if the recruiter hasn’t come back in any way, then you’re quite, you’re fine to send them an email to ask where they’re up to with your application.

[00:21:44] If you’re going for an interview and you’ve, you’ve either had that as a zoom interview or eventually a face to face. Then I quite often say to my candidates, if you haven’t already connect with the hiring manager on LinkedIn and get their email address and just send them a nice email afterwards to say really nice to meet you, you know, great to have connected and I look forward to hearing, so I know people ask me if that’s okay.

[00:22:13] And my thoughts on that is it’s polite. So of course it’s okay. And that actually, I think, demonstrates that interest again in an organization once you’ve come away. So something I advise all of my candidates to do,

[00:22:28] Rob Kendal: [00:22:28] I like that approach. I use it because it’s like, it’s it’s a), like you said, on the surface is very polite and it’s genuinely shows an interest, but it also has the sort of sneaky undertone, but you are putting your head above the parapet a bit to say, Hey, remember me, but with, without doing it in a badgering, kind of, how did the interview go?

[00:22:47] When can I hear back? Did you like me? It’s just being polite and saying, thanks for your interview. Look forward to hearing from you and that’s all you need. And then they’re thinking, Oh good. And then it might be and jog their memory. I’ll remind them to go, Oh, I’ll get back to them about

[00:22:59] Louise Ogilvy: [00:22:59] Yes. Yeah. But the people get nervous about that because they go, Oh, you know, should I, but yeah, absolutely. As I said, if nothing else it’s polite, they’ve, they’ve given their time. So thank them for their time, but you’re right. That under there, there’s an underlying, sort of message there, which is, Hey, remember me?

[00:23:16] but yeah, absolutely. make that contact after an interview. Yeah, definitely.

[00:23:20] Rob Kendal: [00:23:20] and then I suppose finally, do you have any sort of the best, best to last, do you have any, recruitment, horror stories that you can share with us? Cause you know who doesn’t like a bit of a horror story gossip.

[00:23:30] Louise Ogilvy: [00:23:30] my favorite, if you like, horror story is, on interview days, somebody’s pet always seems to die.

[00:23:40] We have that a lot. well I say, I say a lot so much now because obviously, you know, people don’t go to face to face interviews anymore so much, but I’m sure that we’ll, we’ll get back to that again.

[00:23:51] But yeah, it’s quite surprising. you know, if people don’t want to go to an interview that, A pet tends to die and don’t get me wrong, I’ve got pets and I would be devastated. But then quite often, if I asked, I know one particular situation where somebody said that their cat had been won over and couldn’t make it to an interview.

[00:24:12] And then about three weeks later, we were talking about cats and they were telling me about their cats. And I had to say, hmm, didn’t that cat pass away? A few weeks ago and, that, that ended the conversation very quickly. So yeah, I think, I think the thing that we find funny as recruiters is probably the stories that people do come up with, not just to go to interview.

[00:24:39] I’m not a dragon. I would rather somebody just say, do you know what I’ve done a bit of research on the company. I’ve changed my mind. It’s okay to change your mind. but I think people feel that they have to come up with a reason or an excuse rather than just being honest. So my advice to people is be honest with recruiters and you will gain so much respect.

[00:25:01] but yeah, I have lots of horror stories like that, but, that seems to be the most common one.

[00:25:07] Rob Kendal: [00:25:07] don’t use your pets kids. Don’t use it as an excuse

[00:25:09] Louise Ogilvy: [00:25:09] Don’t use your pets. Yeah. And even worse, don’t use it. Don’t don’t use that actual human I’ve had quite a few of those as well, but let’s just stick with pets for the horror story. Yeah.

[00:25:19] Rob Kendal: [00:25:19] plus. Yeah, like you said, it’s kind of, if the job isn’t for you, that’s fine. It’s yours, it’s your life. And it’s a waste of everyone’s time. If you go an interview knowing it’s different going and being unsure, then going, Oh, actually this is great. But going along, knowing that it’s not for you, then it’s just a waste of everyone’s time, even your own, if nothing else.

[00:25:36] Louise Ogilvy: [00:25:36] It is absolutely. And sometimes, you know, you’ll be so surprised that people that I’ve had that, you know, have, have decided they don’t want to go to an interview and then we’ve revisited it and they’ve gone along and they’ve said, I’m so glad I went because you know, What one company doesn’t see every person.

[00:25:55] And if you’ve listened to other opinions or you go on glass door or whatever you might do, you have to remember. No two human beings are ever the same. And so a company isn’t going to suit everybody. You’ve got to go along and find these things out for yourself.

[00:26:11] Rob Kendal: [00:26:11] yeah, you really do. I did that once over in a company in Huddersfield and it was one of the worst interview experiences I’ve ever had. I, I was there super early, but not like super early, but I was there early ready, ready to go? I couldn’t get in the building. I couldn’t get hold of anyone to get in the building.

[00:26:28] Eventually I kind of snuck in behind another employee. And then I stood for literally 10 minutes in the middle of what can only be described as some kind of boiler room

[00:26:36] bullpen sort of environment just stood there. And I didn’t, I looked like I was for an interview. I didn’t look like I should just be randomly there, like a FedEx guy or a delivery man.

[00:26:44] I was just a, no one said a word to me. And I was like, hello, I’m here for an interview. And then eventually some, yeah, some, some dude came and got me and then it was like the eighties book of interviewing, you know, it’s like, where do you already see yourself in five years? What do you, what are you going to bring to this role?

[00:26:58] And you kind of like, I don’t really know what the role is if I’m honest. So I’m like, you know, I’ve, I’ve got a limit. You tell me what I’ll be doing. And I’ll talk about how my experience fits in, but it was always dreadful. I was like, can I kind of just leave?

[00:27:08] Louise Ogilvy: [00:27:08] that’s a good point you make there is that, you know, a lot of clients that we deal with, we have to remind them that it’s a two way process. And especially where software developers have got so much, there’s so much choice out there at the moment.

[00:27:23] well, sorry I say that and I don’t mean, I don’t mean to be flippant because obviously you have COVID, but what I mean is they’re in demand. So software developers are in demand and we have to remind clients that, you know, You’ve got to sell to the candidates. it’s a two way process and, you know, candidates go along to these interviews and actually they don’t want to be grilled for 45 minutes.

[00:27:45] They want you to also sell why they would want to work for you, but that’s the mindset change that we are trying to, you know, get around. I definitely don’t find it anywhere near as much with the startups that I deal with because they, they, they’re so passionate about their business that all they want to do is sell the opportunity and explain why it’s great to work there.

[00:28:07] But yeah, you know, I think hiring managers do have to remember that it’s a two way process and you can’t just sit and grill a candidate for 45 minutes. they’ve got a right to be sold to as well.

[00:28:19] Rob Kendal: [00:28:19] well, yeah, I think you’re either in it, you get it with a lot of older sort of corporate businesses and it’s like this isn’t a Victorian workhouse, you know, I’m going to spend a lot of my time here. And I know you’re paying me for that and quite handsomely sometimes, but at the same time, it’s gotta be somewhere. I want to come and thrive. You know?

[00:28:35] Is there anything else you want to share or plug or talk about before we sign off?

[00:28:39] Louise Ogilvy: [00:28:39] lots, I guess. if anybody’s genuinely interested in looking at the agritech industry sector, there is a fantastic expo going on at the Birmingham NEC in November on the 10th and 11th of November. I think it is. It’s the future farm technology expo. I’m going to be there. So I’m going to be there, talking to lots of people about careers in agritech so it’s, it’s a free event. and they also do lots of webinars at the moment. So yeah, if anybody wants to find out about agritech, then that would be a huge recommendation. but equally, you know, if anybody is keen to, look at working in the startup world, which is very, very different to the corporate industry, I am always happy to chat.

[00:29:21] You can get me on my email and a website address, which is propeller hyphen tech.com.

[00:29:28] Rob Kendal: [00:29:28] Excellent. Yeah. Do give her an email. the address is I’ll put all these in the show notes, but our address is louise@propeller-tech.com. You can find her on LinkedIn, which is linkedin.com forward slash I don’t know if you need the little in, in there anymore.

[00:29:40] Yeah. I don’t, I I, it seems to diff anywhere you can find on that, on, yeah, on LinkedIn, you can find on Twitter she’s just at a propeller tech, and do, do give Louise a connect and yeah. Discuss your recruitment needs, especially if you’re interested in really funky, emerging tech that you’ve, you didn’t know, it didn’t even know existed until today.

[00:30:01] go and work in those fancy robot farms. That’s where I’m going to do.

[00:30:04] Louise Ogilvy: [00:30:04] Fascinating though. Isn’t it? yeah

[00:30:07] Rob Kendal: [00:30:07] it really is. Thank you so much for coming on Louise.

[00:30:09] Louise Ogilvy: [00:30:09] Thank you so much, indeed, for having me, Rob.